1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

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Grenade
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Re: 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

Post by Grenade » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:35 pm

Hey Kev, Thanks again for all the work you have done to the 1290. I have greatly benefitted from your info!

What map would you recommend for:

Rotty Air Box
80/80 Stacks
SAS/Cannister Block off
Bodis Link Pipe
Yosh Can
PCV

I am currently running the "SN" map off the rotty site but I'm curious if you have anything newer?? I plan on running an AutoTune and some wide bands but not right at the moment.

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Re: 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

Post by kevxtx » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:12 am

I will be back on the Dyno in the coming weeks & will be building a custom PCV map for the 80/80 stacks & will share with everyone. I am running my 100/80 map at the moment & am Auto Tunning it closer but always build my final maps on the Dyno so I can see the power gains with different A/F ratios live.

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Re: 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

Post by Bootworks » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:36 pm

bodypilot wrote:Ok so something is up. If my conversion is right your *worst* mpg is 38 when riding hard. I wonder if my 16t sprocket is messing up the bikes calculations on the display. Do you still have the 16t on?
The 16t should not change the calculation since distance traveled comes from wheel revolutions. I'm also running a 16t and Kev's mods, on California's 92 ethanol, and 80% sport 20% street modes, and 36mpg has come to seem normal. Still better than my 'Brutie', even though that sled is lighter and puts 20% less power to the ground.

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Re: 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

Post by kevxtx » Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:26 pm

Bootworks wrote:
bodypilot wrote:Ok so something is up. If my conversion is right your *worst* mpg is 38 when riding hard. I wonder if my 16t sprocket is messing up the bikes calculations on the display. Do you still have the 16t on?
The 16t should not change the calculation since distance traveled comes from wheel revolutions. I'm also running a 16t and Kev's mods, on California's 92 ethanol, and 80% sport 20% street modes, and 36mpg has come to seem normal. Still better than my 'Brutie', even though that sled is lighter and puts 20% less power to the ground.
The Speedo signal is calculated off the ABS front wheel speed sensor not the rear.

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Re: 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

Post by Rozz » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:37 pm

Hi all,
Been reading along and getting alot of info.
Need some advise, i have the Autotune installed and am fiddeling about, since there are 2 riding modes i use most, sport and street, is it wise to also make 2 maps?
Thanks,
2014 Superduke R 1290, Akrapovic Evo, Rottweiller, SAS Removal St2, Xenon HID, HF Carbon, PCV & AT, lots of PP :)

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Re: 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

Post by kevxtx » Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:19 pm

On my 1290 I run one map at 13.2:1, 13.0:1 between 80 & 100 throttles, if you want to run a leaner cruising area I would run 13.6:1. Just remember you should really only Auto Tune when the motor is under load.

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Re: 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

Post by bodypilot » Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:26 pm

kevxtx wrote: you should really only Auto Tune when the motor is under load.
Kev, what would you say the problems would be having autotune running all the time? If it's always trying to hit a target of 13.2 why would a lower load be a problem (assuming already that you are only tuning the higher TPS settings say 10% upward)
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Re: 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

Post by Rozz » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:10 am

kevxtx wrote:On my 1290 I run one map at 13.2:1, 13.0:1 between 80 & 100 throttles, if you want to run a leaner cruising area I would run 13.6:1. Just remember you should really only Auto Tune when the motor is under load.
Kev, i'm asking if it is wise to make an autotune map for street mode and another for sport mode.
Since there is quite a difference in fuel consumption (among other things ofcourse) between the 2.
any comments?
2014 Superduke R 1290, Akrapovic Evo, Rottweiller, SAS Removal St2, Xenon HID, HF Carbon, PCV & AT, lots of PP :)

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Re: 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

Post by kevxtx » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:24 am

bodypilot wrote:
kevxtx wrote: you should really only Auto Tune when the motor is under load.
Kev, what would you say the problems would be having autotune running all the time? If it's always trying to hit a target of 13.2 why would a lower load be a problem (assuming already that you are only tuning the higher TPS settings say 10% upward)
The Auto Tune sample rate is to slow on an Auto Tune to tune a perfect map with it running all the time, it throws false trims when the throttle is closed suddenly, if you are on & off the throttle all the time the A/F ratio is all over the place, I have done extensive testing on the Dyno between my AT-300 against a Dyno tune & the best way to build a map using an AT is under load the same way we build custom Dyno maps, one other thing if the pipe popes back under decel the Auto Tune can pull off up to 20% fuel in that area, to correct those fuel cells with a slow response rate it takes a few firing cycles of the motor to get back to a good A/F ratio so the motor show a loss of power from an over rich or lean A/F ratio.

If Auto Tunes were that good it would make Dyno's redundant for tuning.

As mentioned the lower TPS throttle opens are the most vulnerable & are the biggest problems in leaving the A/T to run all the time.

I will leave my Auto running on my 1290 for this Friday's ride & data log the A/F ratio riding through some corners & will post the results. Below link is from data logging my O2 controller that I build for MT09's using the same wideband O2 sensor that tunes my Auto Tune on that bike, I run a POD-300 data logger that is connected via CAN BUS to the PCV & CAN BUS to the Auto Tune: http://mt09.motorcycle-talk.com/forum/m ... od-25.html

I use my AT to get my maps close & only AT under load, it save me time on the Dyno & can normally whip up a custom single cylinder map up in 45min using Tunning Link Software.

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Re: 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

Post by Bootworks » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:48 am

Fascinating! I'm running three of these setups (1290SDr, 990SMT & MultiStrada 1200) and I've noticed much the same thing on the lower range; Accept AT-300 trims indiscriminately and some surging at row revs returns. Fortunately I've built a library (as well as kept the original Dyno maps) so it's easy to correct. Now, when i see odd (high) trims at lower throttle openings and lower revs, I manually correct those before accepting (sending) trims. But, you're right, how you ride the bike while the AT-300 is running has a major effect. I still remember your coaching regarding "avoiding major engine braking" while building a map using the Auto-Tune module...

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Re: 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

Post by kevxtx » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:03 pm

Some results from the data logging I did on Fridays ride.

Cruising along 6 to 10% throttle openings, the Auto Tune trimming to 13.2:1. I am only showing the front cylinder so I don't over complicate things. As we can see from the data logging the Auto tune is keeping the A/F ratio between 13.2:1 to 13.4:1 quite nicely.

Image

Now I have entered some corners & am on & off the throttle all the time with Auto Tune still trimming, now with some 100% throttle & zero throttle openings in Blue. In the back round the above data logging from cruising around in RED can be seen as quite stable but the on off throttle opening has really thrown out the A/F ratio ranging from 11:1 to 16:1 in BLUE, the Auto Tune in blue has no hope in keeping the A/F ratio around 13.2:1 the response rate is too slow.

Image

Now I add both throttles & A/F ratio logs together & you can clearly see when cruising at low throttle opening the A/T tune can hold the A/F ratio in a good range in red, now get on & off the throttle & the A/F ratio is all over the place in Blue.

Image

Next post is with the auto tune turned off running on my custom Dyno PCV map in Green verse the same custom map in Orange with the Auto Tune running through the same sets of corners.

Image

With many hrs of data logging over the years I always tune for that custom map as it is the most stable way to tune a bike. The above data logging results where recorded directly out of the Auto Tune & PCV using the same wideband O2 sensor that tunes the Auto Tune via CAN BUS to my POD-300 data logger.

So the story here is a Auto Tune left Tunning/running while riding will never be as good as a custom built Dyno map, I never leave my A/T running all the time I only use it to build A/T maps under load at constant throttles through each cell & save the map then go & play with my bike, leaving the A/T running & thinking the A/F ratio will be kept at the target values under all riding condition is a false statement.

I used a POD-300 to capture the real time AFR in the pipe, info on the device can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mknaP_6zASM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iSJ4Z-EAVQ

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Re: 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

Post by Don 1290 » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:48 pm

Hey guys,

Great data Kev! Lots of good informative stuff. I had my custom map done recently but apparently my 1290 is a bit odd and my tuner couldn't get a good tachometer reading from either the rear or front coil. This meant that my tune was done by speed on the dyno and not rpm. Kev can you see any issue with this? I actually called up Powerhouse Dyno and all they could tell me was to grab it from the rear coil, my tuner tried all sorts but stopped short of grabbing it from the alternator as that would have been a prick of a job. I am happy with the tune, very smooth (deceptively actually as it has lost the aggressive 7,000rpm spike and is now so linear like an electric motor).

Any thoughts?

Cheers

Don.

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Re: 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

Post by kevxtx » Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:38 am

[quote="bodypilot"]Kev, that is a great post and helped my understand some of the odd looking stuff in my logs. I wiped clean a map and went out for 100 miles of tuning using only on-load sections and never low TPS or decel. The map looks better with fewer areas that look suspicious. I have to say though that there are still a few fuel cells that have come back the exact same way like a -5 right in the middle of a row of +4s - I suppose they are for real as they came right back.

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Re: 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

Post by Largeproject » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:56 pm

Tommorow mine bike goes in the dynobank for mapping, when I have the map I will post it.
Specs:
SDR euro model
SAS/SLS blocked off
Full Akra syteem (EVO)
K & N air filter
Akra mapping
Dyno jet O2 eliminators installed
2017 EU bike - Akra full system - KTM Akra map - SAS delete - K & N filter - QS - Trackpack - MTC

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Re: 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

Post by bodypilot » Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:07 pm

Largeproject wrote:Tommorow mine bike goes in the dynobank for mapping, when I have the map I will post it.
Specs:
SDR euro model
SAS/SLS blocked off
Full Akra syteem (EVO)
K & N air filter
Akra mapping
Dyno jet O2 eliminators installed
I am really interested to see your map. I have the same pipe with the Akra map installed and in many areas of the map my Autotune is pulling off fuel as it's too rich. Can you post the actual dynojet file when you get it done??

(I am assuming that you have a 1290 SDR and that the SMT mentioned in your profile is your other/last bike!)

Good luck!
Akra Ti system,Ohlins TTX shock,GP Racing cartridges,Rottweiler intake,Dynojet PCV/AutoTune/Ignition/POD300,BST Carbon Rims+Ceramic,Pirelli Supercorsas (200rear),Brembo T-drive Rotors,Vesrah Pads,Brembo RCS17 master,Recluse clutch,RC8 selector, Tyco hoses

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Re: 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

Post by Largeproject » Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:16 pm

Sure, I will post the map and the dyno results.
It is Super Duke 1290 R (or SDR) ;)
Mine last bike was a Yamaha R1 from 2009, normaly I would buy a new R1 again, but Yamaha did to long with the 2009 R1.
The new model is not looking very good in mine opion,the specs okay.
I always ride supersports fron RD(RZ)500, FZR100,ZX9,Thunderace and then all R1 models, this mine first nacked bike, the way of riding it is compleet different, specialy the short gearing, the first gear from the R1 reach 166km/u, with the SDR you riding then in the 4 gear.
So the rpm limiter I using a lot. :oops:
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Re: 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

Post by dflowers » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:54 pm

I would be interested in your map. Interested to see the dyno results too.

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Re: 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

Post by bodypilot » Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:21 pm

I am most interested to see what the dyno operator puts in the 0, 2% and 5% columns. My AFR values are quite variable around there as the PCV is not making corrections and the bike is just doing what ever it wants but it no longer has an O2 sensor and I killed the closed loop mode with a resistor!
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Re: 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

Post by kevxtx » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:12 pm

Nice work, any chance we can get a copy of your PCV map to see what they did?

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Re: 1290 Power Commander V Custom maps

Post by bodypilot » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:19 pm

please please please!!!!! :D
Akra Ti system,Ohlins TTX shock,GP Racing cartridges,Rottweiler intake,Dynojet PCV/AutoTune/Ignition/POD300,BST Carbon Rims+Ceramic,Pirelli Supercorsas (200rear),Brembo T-drive Rotors,Vesrah Pads,Brembo RCS17 master,Recluse clutch,RC8 selector, Tyco hoses

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